‘Heterophobia’–Can Anyone Please Get A Little Stupider?

Gay-Rights-gay-rightsThe raging ignorance of the fellow members of my species exhibit, gives me a splitting headache:

Nick Griffin’s ridiculous cry of ‘heterophobia’

Just when you hoped you’d seen the last of him, up he pops again. Users of Twitter can hardly have failed to notice that yesterday, Nick Griffin took to the social networking site to express his anger over a judge’s decision to award damages to a gay couple denied a room at a bed and breakfast.

In a series of increasingly irate tweets, the leader of the BNP called on his supporters to take action against “the 2 bullying ‘gay’ activists who won the case v Christian B&B owners.” He demanded to know why leftwing and gay activists didn’t “confront Muslims instead of picking on meek and forgiving Christians”, claiming that “bullies are always cowards”. He also publicly shared the home address of the gay couple in question and encouraged people to demonstrate outside their house – what he called a “bit of drama by way of reminding you that an English couple’s home is their castle”. He ended with the battle cry, “Say No to heterophobia!”.

[I think the biggest reason for not confronting Muslims, is that they tend towards hyperactive violence when even slightly criticized.]

And no – bullies are not always cowards. Sometimes they’re just bored sociopaths. Either way we look at it, this sort of discrimination is disgraceful. But if the B&B owners refused to rent to the couple because they thought gay sex was icky-oogy, well, their asses would be on a plate. But as Hitchens so aptly puts it: ‘a man who proves every day that you can get away with anything in this country if you can shove the word “Reverend” in front of your name.’ The main point being, that hide under the umbrella of religion, and it (used to) provide a shield for both ignorance and discrimination.

And  what does the ‘upright’ Mrs. Wilkinson say?

Speaking after the ruling, Susanne Wilkinson said, “Equality laws have gone too far when they start to intrude into a family home.” But a bed and breakfast is not a family home. It’s a family business – and like any business, it falls under the provisions of the Equality Act. Wilkinson also added, “People’s beliefs about marriage are coming under increasing attack and I am concerned about people’s freedom to speak and act upon these beliefs.”

Oh boo-fucking hoo. I get tired of all these plodders whining about their ‘beliefs’ being held to account – as if the mere act of ‘believing’ has any impact on reality itself.

And then we get idiotic gaffs like the following:

Whenever “beliefs about marriage” are mentioned, some people have a peculiar habit of confusing genuine discrimination with the right to discriminate against others. The former archbishop of Canterbury, Lord Carey, demonstrated this last week when he compared opponents of equal marriage in Britain to Jews living in Nazi Germany. Clearly the Archbishop has a selective sense of history, or he’d remember that gay people were also rounded up and murdered by the Nazis. And Nick Griffin adopts a similar tactic now when he talks about people being the victims of “heterophobia”. What we’re seeing is the oppressor claiming the language and status of the oppressed.

And in my personal experience, in both real-time and blogging, is that the hugest portion of humanity that leans towards raging stupidity, is when they’re religious. It’s like they think they’d been absolved of all responsibility for having an informed opinion.

Till the next post, then.

This entry was posted in Absurdity, Boo-fucking-hoo!, Crazy fundies, Delusion, for fuck's sake!, Gay Marriage, Marriage, Mythology, Politics, Psychology, Relationships, Sexuality, Stupidity, Superstition, Values. Bookmark the permalink.

31 Responses to ‘Heterophobia’–Can Anyone Please Get A Little Stupider?

  1. buckeyenonbeliever says:

    Does anyone else find it incredibly ironic, and stupendously laughable that religious extremists are playing the victim and are accusing others of bullying them? For thousands of years, religionists have utilized and employed the tactic of bullying to abuse, intimidate and murder other groups of people who did not fit their definition of proper god fearing humans. As more and more people shed their religious shackles and reason and logic blossoms; I suspect we shall hear more of this type of whining from the religionists.

  2. MacJew says:

    KA, first let me tell you what I believe: the portion of the Bible many use to deny Gays and Lesbians equality was written by people who were trying to be different than other cultures.

    Now let me tell you what I know: that very same passage is roughly 5,000 years old. A rational person doesn’t look at, say, The Epic of Gilgamesh, Beowulf, or the works of Joseph Locke to be reality. They’re viewed as fiction. And rightly so. However because a number of people use a single book as the basis of their religion, it somehow becomes legitimate (by the way, I’m starting a new religion called The Church of Batman and Bob Kane is going to be our prophet–at least it’ll be fun, and we won’t discrimate except against criminals).

  3. Brooklyn Boy says:

    buckeyenonbeliever is dead on!
    Whenever right wing christians aren’t allowed to dominate some kind of activity or discriminate against a specific group, they scream persecution! There aren’t enough tissues in the world when that kind of boohooing starts.

  4. Sue Blue says:

    To these people, with their selective history education (or lack of history education), and their overwhelming sense of God-given entitlement, any criticism is the equivalent of having bamboo splinters driven under their nails. When backed into a corner with logic and reason, they piss, whine, moan and scream persecution. To them, getting scratched by a cat is exactly the same as being fed to the lions.
    Plus, according to their godly guidebook, they get heavenly brownie points for persecution, so every slight, no matter how small, has to be built up into an apocalyptic bloodbath.

  5. ChuckA says:

    Well said, Sue!
    I still contend that religions…ALL religions…qualify as various levels of mental illness; some, way more serious than others. The “Western’ Abrahamic varieties, IMO, top the list as the most highly delusional, radically solipsistic, and…given, the existence and current widespread number of insane Nuclear weapons…are, more than ever before, seriously and most frighteningly dangerous to ALL forms of life on Earth!.
    What!…(especially to all of you who have progeny?):
    “Be afraid…be VERY afraid!”…?
    Or, perhaps; to quote (the all-too demonstrably and mythically fabricated) “Christos”:
    “Weep not for me; but for your children!” :???:

  6. Robster says:

    Love this quote from above: “– as if the mere act of ‘believing’ has any impact on reality itself “. Is there anythng as empty and irrelevent as mere belief? It’s as deep as a “feeling” about something.

  7. L says:

    I think you all are missing the bigger picture here…

    We are increasingly becoming a culture that is pushing certain beliefs and perspectives on morality into a corner in the name of ”progression.” You all praise this because it fits what you believe but if the tables were turned then it’d be you guys on the defensive of course. This is very hypocritical.

    Case in point here… the Chick-Fil-A incident, where the owner, on a Christian station, expressed his beliefs of marriage in the traditional Biblical sense of being between a male and a female. That’s all he said. He said what he believed. He did not go off calling people heathens or crying hellfire, he just said what he personally believed marriage to be. This was the question. What else could he give for an answer without lying to himself? Should we feel the need to do that?

    The out lash on this was despicable. People boycotted the business. Sponsors pulled out. Even the mayor of Boston went out and condemned them from the city.

    Many took this opinion and dubbed it as hate. Well, I don’t see the hate anywhere here. I see a different perspective on an issue. I agree with him. As a Christian myself, I disagree with plenty of things our culture is pushing. The very world itself is to be disagreed with as we consider it and all our inherent natures flawed. Does this mean I hate someone though? Not at all. We just see differently. I have my beliefs, they have theirs. I think I’m right, they think they’re right. I say one thing, they say a different thing. On what basis of this specific issue are we to condemn one but not the other?

    That’s the issue here. If you’re not politically correct and fit into this vision of progressiveness then you’re automatically hateful.

    And what’s most ironic is how many of you will condemn a Christian like me for being so narrow minded and bigoted and hateful yet the sheer amount of comments I see from New Atheists are so biased, so elitist, so emotionally angry and hateful… as my Master has said, check the 4×4 in your own eye first before pointing fingers…

    Peace and blessings from our Father be upon you all. Agape to you.

  8. KA says:

    I think you all are missing the bigger picture here…

    We’re not the ones who use our gullibility to further our delusions.

    We are increasingly becoming a culture that is pushing certain beliefs and perspectives on morality into a corner in the name of ”progression.”

    No, it’s called evolution. Our morality’s evolving past your ridiculous anachronisms.

    You all praise this because it fits what you believe but if the tables were turned then it’d be you guys on the defensive of course.

    Praise what exactly? An editorial?

    This is very hypocritical.

    The peanut gallery is kibbitzing.

    Case in point here… the Chick-Fil-A incident, where the owner, on a Christian station, expressed his beliefs of marriage in the traditional Biblical sense of being between a male and a female.

    & puts all gay people who work for that establishment in fear for their jobs and/or their lives.
    Because trust me, that’s what inevitably follows.

    That’s all he said. He said what he believed. He did not go off calling people heathens or crying hellfire, he just said what he personally believed marriage to be. This was the question. What else could he give for an answer without lying to himself? Should we feel the need to do that?

    & that unequivocally puts him in the homophobe state.

    The out lash on this was despicable. People boycotted the business. Sponsors pulled out. Even the mayor of Boston went out and condemned them from the city.

    Because he’s a bigot.

    Many took this opinion and dubbed it as hate.

    Oh – I see. You’re deprecating this to a clash of opinion, to make the homophobia more acceptable. If he said something about all jews going to hell (or muslims), or women staying barefoot & pregnant in the kitchen, well, that would be a different matter now, wouldn’t it?

    Well, I don’t see the hate anywhere here. I see a different perspective on an issue.

    Of course you do. That you have an imaginary play friend shouldn’t reflect on your sanity, should it?

    I agree with him.

    Then you’re both idiots. & homophobes.

    As a Christian myself, I disagree with plenty of things our culture is pushing.

    Amongst them: reality!

    The very world itself is to be disagreed with as we consider it and all our inherent natures flawed.

    Seeing as there is no such thing as perfection, your concept of ‘flawed’ is flawed.

    Does this mean I hate someone though?

    Does the sight of two men kissing physically revolt you? Then yes.

    Not at all. We just see differently. I have my beliefs, they have theirs. I think I’m right, they think they’re right. I say one thing, they say a different thing. On what basis of this specific issue are we to condemn one but not the other?

    Not all opinions are equal. & a belief is not some sacred thing. It is to be tested against the grain of the world, & if it snaps quickly, to be discarded

    That’s the issue here.

    Excuse me, no it’s not. The issue here is raging intolerance of an alternate lifestyle based in whole on a religious viewpoint. Your armchair diagnosis is invalid.

    If you’re not politically correct and fit into this vision of progressiveness then you’re automatically hateful.

    Just so’s ya know: there’s really nothing more ‘non PC’ than banging away at religion. That’s the sacred cow, of which I partake of a metaphorical steak at least once a week.
    So take your biblical horseshit & keep it to yourself.

    And what’s most ironic is how many of you will condemn a Christian like me for being so narrow minded and bigoted and hateful yet the sheer amount of comments I see from New Atheists are so biased, so elitist, so emotionally angry and hateful… as my Master has said, check the 4×4 in your own eye first before pointing fingers…

    Step right up folks, & see the strawman set afire!
    You’re completely wrong. About everything you’ve just ranted on.
    A. The ‘GNU Atheists’ comment means you’re taking some jackass w/a collar (if you’re not that jackass already) seriously. There’s just us atheists.
    B. That’s the Tu quoque fallacy – you’re projecting your own biases onto us, & then judging us from there, Mote Boy,
    C. The ‘can’t we all get along’ sentiment is nice, & I’d be more than happy to leave you chaps to your own devices, except that none of you seem to ever return the favor. Y’all are more than happy to pass legislature based on a bad interpretation of everything (e.g the bible), & force folks to do as you do. Plus, the ‘let’s play nice’ option never works w/religious folk. Give ‘em an inch, they try to take the whole mile. Trust me, that option went out in the 20th CE, when it became clearly evident that being pleasant about the topic just meant (to them) that they actually had a valid point which in fact they don’t.

    Peace and blessings from our Father be upon you all. Agape to you

    You are not my brother. We share a common ancestry, but my dad ain’t your dad. When my dad was alive, he could kick your dad’s ass. Because my dad actually existed. Reality always wins.
    & I don’t need some supernatural slacker to validate my existence, make me a wonderful person, or cause me to love my fellow humans.
    Because I already exist which is validation enough, my parents raised me right, & I’m human.
    That’s more than enough, thanks.

  9. buckeyenonbeliever says:

    @L

    How dare we push certain outdated, ignorant, and intolerant beliefs into a corner and progress as a human race? Who do we think we are to deviate from your imaginery master’s divine command? Afterall, the divine commands provided to us simple mortals were so beautiful, so eloquent, so enlightened, and so just and perfect for all of your master’s subjects.

    I for one am glad we continue to buy, sell and own slaves, that we continue to stone people to death for working on a particular day, that we can sell our daughters, that we kill adulterers, and that we are still able to kill our stubborn and unruly children. Without these mater’s divine decrees where would we be? Evolved maybe?

    L, you have the right to believe what you wish. You have the right to express your beliefs, but you and your ilk do not have the right to institute, implement, and enforce your religious naivities on the masses. I know this is going to be hard to accept as you have been fed the myth by the religious right that we are a christian nation; but laws are not set by an imaginary master in the sky (we tried this before and this was called the Dark Ages).

    Thank goodness laws have been progressed by evolved humans lest we return to your imaginary skydaddy’s evil, bigoted, and intolerant ways. We still have a long way to go, but regress is not an option. Progress is the way forward my friend.

  10. MacJew says:

    @L, I’m not an Atheist, however I’ve noticed Xians and Muslims are the worst of those to force their beliefs on someone. Xians will try scare tactics to get people over to their side while Muslims promise 70 Virgins. It’s bullshit. The idea of Heaven is only 2,000 years old. Before that, you’ll never see it mentioned it mentioned in the Jewish Texts. In the Talmud, though, it says eternal life is only guaranteed so long as people remember us. In other words, as long as loved ones remember you and share stories about you, you will live on in memory. People like Audie Murphy, Abe Lincoln, and even Stalin will forever be remembered because of being taught in history classes. THAT is true eternal life, not the BS Xians feed everyone.

  11. Stardust says:

    L, As KA has clearly stated, ” The issue here is raging intolerance of an alternate lifestyle based in whole on a religious viewpoint.” This viewpoint is a dangerous one. Recently, a politician in Arkansas said disrespectful children should be killed as is stated in the Xian Bible. Like the Chic-Fil-A owner and yourself, L, you are using religious texts to justify bigotry as the politician is using the same religious texts to condone killing children. Religious beliefs of this kind are a danger to individuals and society as a whole. Though it is said with a smile and prayer it is still evil.

  12. ChuckA says:

    @ MacJew
    Quoting from your above comment:
    “…as long as loved ones remember you and share stories about you, you will live on in memory. People like Audie Murphy, Abe Lincoln, and even Stalin will forever be remembered because of being taught in history classes. THAT is true eternal life, not the BS Xians feed everyone.”

    Me (ChuckA):
    Ummmm…With all due respect…

    Sorry, MacJew…that’s certainly no “Eternal”, let alone even remotely Cosmologically attractive, sort of afterlife.
    First of all, as I’m sure you’re aware, contemporary loved ones very often die out way BEFORE the death of anyone famous. I think we all have personal examples of that in our own families.
    Additionally…the memory that anyone has of ANY famous historical figures, let alone obscure people like ourselves, has no “real intimate personal experiental content”; AND…is very often nothing more than a bunch of ignorance based, highly questionable, sometimes even prejudically motivated, if not totally outright fabricated…
    BULLSHIT.
    Something all of us…especially old-timers like me…”know” from our childhood memories. Or is it just childish and sometimes very silly(?), vaguely remembered history class content?

    And…BTW…you STILL, to some degree, ‘place rational/factual stock’ in the Talmud [Torah/Bible]?
    Perhaps…(just a suggestion, of course!)…you might check out this particularly well organized and, IMO, rather “mind-opening”, rationally based, Bible/Quran/Book of Mormon expository Site:

    http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/abs/long.htm

    That said…tangentially…
    (take a “stream of consciousness” reading breath here?)…
    having lived for 37 years with my recently deceased (on July 27th), loving fellow atheist companion, Nikki; who was from a very secular Jewish family…unlike me, an Irish/Swedish “Goy”…who was immediately indoctrinated into demonstrably child-abusive Catholicism right from birth…was atheist, VERY early in her life…my greatest respect for Judaism lies in the fact that the outrageously sadomasochistic ‘notion’ (purportedly introduced to Western Monotheism by the so-called “Meek and Mild” Jesus, no less!) of Eternal Damnation is NOT a belief espoused by Judaism.
    AND…additionally…a human fetus is not really recognized as a true, actual “person” (IOW…actual member of the Earthbound human race/tribe?)…until “it’s” actually fucking BORN…and takes a very first BREATH!
    Of course…then…(like me…if it’s a male)…Judaism, unfortunately IMO, proposes chopping off a little tip of the penis in a traditional ritual circumcision…something like:
    “Welcome to the World, you poor little asshole victim! In fact, this is just a quick sample of what’s in store for you in this totally bizarre Cosmic reality you’ve been dragged, with no choice, into…all bloody wet & screaming (right out of your also, all too-often, screaming mom’s, amazingly protracted & bloody vagina…and, of course…
    that’s with no accompanying “Vagina Monologue”?)!!!
    What!…’Mazel tov’?
    OK…now…get this poor little bastard outa here!”
    [Of course, my circumcision was done by an all-too traditionally ignorant (SOB?) medical doctor; in a rather ordinary fucking secular hospital! Yeah...SHEESH!!!]
    Ah yes…those very vague…wonderful MEMORIES!
    ‘nough said? :shock:

  13. MacJew says:

    @ChuckA, thank you for your response. I’ll also check out the website you mentioned.

    I did say that I am not an Atheist, but I’m perfectly willing to admit when I’m wrong. You were correct when you said “contemporary loved ones very often die out way BEFORE the death of anyone famous” and “the memory that anyone has of ANY famous historical figures, let alone obscure people like ourselves, has no ‘real intimate personal experiental content'”. However, I’ve always felt that it is often the tales told about us after we die, even exaggerated ones, to family and strangers that can bring joy. Tell a comical anecdote about your partner to someone that did something that reminded you of your loved one. In that moment, you and this stranger share a memory of your partner. With luck, they’ll remember. In time, the story could grow or diminish with each telling (“I knew a person who once who met a person who met a person who knew this person that did XYZ…”).

    As for my stock in Talmud? Well, it’s always interesting to read ancient commentary the TaNaKh, just as it’s interesting (though often frustrating) to see a modern take.

  14. ChuckA says:

    Thanks MacJew, for actually dialoguing here; which, unlike the old days on this Site, when it was mainly administered by one of it’s originators, “Sean”, under the moniker of “God is for Suckers”, dialogging was much more common than it is these days.
    Just my opinion, but it seems that with the advent of the facebook and twitter links, many people who come here from those links don’t spend much time reading and/or responding to any personal comments. The exception might be those who closely follow Ray Garton’s occasional and excellent Posts. IOW…Ray’s “fans”.
    My point here is that we used to have a whole lot more frequent arguing, kidding, ranting, and just plain good natured banter, a few years back. After Sean died at the way too young age of 40…in, I think, Oct. of 2006 (KA, Stardust query?)…sadly, way too young…things gradually changed; and you have today’s results…with hardly any active comment action.
    C’est La Vie?

    OK…If I might…
    As to the whole subject of “Eternal Life”…or…as to the subject that most people are really interested in (if interested at all?)…the question of whether there is, or isn’t actually SOME kind of “afterlife” survival; IMO (and as something Nikki, recently deceased, and I, as definite atheists, occasionally discussed)…nobody…I repeat…NOBODY…actually really KNOWS!
    “Belief…any belief…is definitely NOT knowledge!”
    There’s just…so far, at least…no, convincing, “soft”, “hard”, or, in particular, scientifically verifiable evidence of any kind of afterlife. And, for me, at least…if there IS some kind of surviving afterlife (and/or, as I’m prone to add, as an old, former “New-Ager”…even PREVIOUS, or parallel existence, as well) IMO, it probably has very little whatever to do with any of our rather ridiculous man-made religious concepts.

    “That said”…for anyone who might have missed it, when Hitch was still with us (he died Dec. 15, 2011, only 10 days after it’s upload to YouTube!)…here’s perhaps the all-time most interesting public debate (more, I’d say, like a somewhat friendly, even curiously respectful, discussion) of that subject; and, oddly perhaps, it’s between two atheists and two Jewish Rabbis!
    [IOW, no typical raging, totally bullshit, Christians or Muslims] ;)
    It’s a bit long; but, I think, well worth the time spent [1hr/37min/51secs]:

  15. MacJew says:

    ChuckA, I do not have time to watch the video now (I have to get ready to go to work), but I’ll hopefully have time in the next few days.

    One of my biggest beefs with other theists is when they say they KNOW G-d exists. I don’t know. That’s why I’m always careful to use the words “I BELIEVE”. I believe in a higher power. My beliefs are rather eccentric (for instance, I believe that G-d is not all powerful, otherwise things like Sylvia Likens’s murder and the New York Yankees would never happen). My belief in a non-after life also happens to fall in line more with an ancient Rabbi known (Machmonodes, I think?), who said Man was not put on this world to glorify any celestial being, but to tend to the Earth and each other. In that is not Pascal’s Wager (I.e., I believe not because I want to but because I’m afraid not to), but the more honest “Atheist’s Wager” that says if a benevolent god exists, if I am good, I will be rewarded; if I do wrong, I will be punished. If a benevolent god does not exist and I am a good person, I have at least made the world a better place for the short time I’m on this planet; if I’m an evil person, then more’s the pity (my own phrasing of course, but I hope you understand my meaning).

    As for coming here? Well I can’t remember how I discovered this site. It might have been one of Mr. Garton’s posts on facebook, but that’s not why I continued to come. I like to have my mind stimulated. If I disagree with someone, discussion is a great way for each party to see the other side. They may still disagree at the end, but if you’re honest, you’ll at least be left thinking. A good example of that is when a friend of mine from High School and I were discussing religion. I don’t remember how it came up, but we were sitting in the Lincoln Diner in Gettysburg one night. If I remember correctly, it was around Passover so I was actually eating somewhat Kosher. Anyway, I remember it was my friend asking me if I believed in the literal truth of what The Bible says. I answered in the negative (if we all come from Adam and Eve, and later only Noah’s family, we would be more inbred than the entire states of Kentucky, Georgia, and Tennessee combined)), but I did answer I believed SOME of it. From there, we went into a discussion about what or what does not constitute as evidence. At the end of the night, I was left thinking and, later, researching what all my friend said. I didn’t know much of what he had said, and I admitted as much. My friend helped me on to my path of discovery. Perhaps I listened only because he was my friend, but I’ve always enjoyed being mentally stimulated.

  16. L says:

    My apologies for such a late reply. As I have had a number of different replies to my comment, I will answer each directly.

    @ KA
    More than half of your reply was simply just pure slander, bigotry, and quite childish. You say I project my own supposedly biased, elitist, and narrow minded characteristics on to you in some fallacious sentiment yet your very reply to me only proves my point on the issue, lol. How you can deny my comments when you example them to a T with such heinous and bigoted remarks against me and my faith is mind boggling.

    You condemn me of strawman tactics when you insinuate employees of Chic-Fil-A will be murdered because of their owner’s beliefs of marriage. You justify people boycotting and condemning this man and his franchise over his beliefs by calling him a bigot… yet you can’t comprehend how the very opposition that was displayed towards this is in itself bigotry.

    You cite comments of ”women staying barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen” and people going to hell in the same line as this man’s ”homophobic” comment, yet all I can hear from him is what he believes a legitimate marriage is. Yet another strawman statement. If he said homosexuals should repent of their evil desires, or that homosexuals are all going to hell, then these two comments could be likened, respectively, to what you exampled. He didn’t tell anyone what to do. He didn’t say who’s going to hell. He said what he believed towards a specific relationship, just like how you may believe that marriage is the union between any gender of people. What’s the difference here? Oh, yes, he gains his opinion from a belief structure you reject so you don’t like it and will segregate the fundamental principle between it all.

    You say I hate another if I seen them and the same gender kiss and am revolted. First off, I wouldn’t say I’m revolted, rather saddened. If you seen someone shooting up heroin, something you may think as revolting, do you automatically hate them? I hope not. Just because you disagree with something by no means should translate to hate. You may hate the act but the person doing it can be absolutely separate. You tying the two together in such a way is illogical and not to mention yet another step towards a strawman…

    You then proceed to state that all beliefs aren’t equal. I agree, but I’m not here defending my own. I’m defending the PRINCIPLE of having free reign to believe what one wishes and speak accordingly. THAT is what is equal here. I dislike a lot of what people and our entire culture have to say but I would NEVER inhibit them from being able to say it and I don’t go cry Religiphobic or Christphobic and damn them as bigots and total idiots because what they believe is different than my own perspective.

    I also agree that beliefs should be tested. I validated my faith through such means. I stepped out of the postmodern mentality that so hopelessly enslaves one’s mind into the paradigm of only today and critically and deductively came to understand that what the Bible says is truth. I’ve come to understand that our current society and it’s ”evolution” did not come from spectacular truths being found that debunk the Christian message, rather through a careful and rather spectacular overtaking and engineering of the world structure, namely through the Rosicrucians and Mystery schools. But this is an entirely different and larger topic… if you wish to get into that then okay, but that wasn’t my main point of message here…

    All in all, everything you have to say here can be summed up as, ”Those who oppose homosexuality are total bigots because I don’t agree with them. That’s a justification enough.” You keep thinking you’re just fine and dandy while you viciously shit on everything and one which doesn’t agree with you. I don’t know how your parents raised you but that, to me, is not a sign of someone ”good.” None of us are good. ”Good” is relative and subjective to you. It never has firm ground as no objectivity exists in your perspective, only the subjectivity you make an objective and you make this without even knowing it. You will condemn the pious like me for burning people and being a total bigot with his hands over his eyes yet attack and reject anything contrary to your own beliefs which doesn’t sit right, and you probably do this through more emotion and bias than anything critical, judging by your hot manner here.

    You’re a zealot to your own cause, just as bad as Westboro Baptist Church, yet you see yourselves miles apart because you rest your hate and ignorance on different things. These things are inherent within individuals and can be attached to ANY ideology. The mark of a wise mind is not exactly based on what he believes but HOW he believes it. How he validates and discerns things. There are hateful Christians, there are hateful atheists. Bigoted on each end. Ignorant on each end. Do not think you are better than someone because of WHAT you believe. None are more enslaved in mind once they tread these grounds…

    Please consider my words here. I say them not to condemn you but to have you take a step back and consider them.

    Peace and blessings from our Father be upon you. May He guide you a mind that may truly thirsts and calm your heart, for I see much anger and pride within it. Understand how these inhibit you and your learning and entire mentality. God bless my friend.

  17. L says:

    @ buckeyenonbeliever
    You have confused my message here with some political statement. I don’t look to the world to agree with Christian teaching as the Bible clearly states that it won’t, not until Christ sets His kingdom up in here. Far too many Christians in America seem bent on conforming a world that Christ has continually said to be at odds with us into a Christian mentality. Those Dominionists are particularly rancid in this mentality… I totally support the separation of church and state, just as the Reformers did.

    I’m not lobbying for Republicans. I’m not picketing against gay marriage or abortion legislation. These are MORAL issues, not political. Legislation won’t exactly prevent them, not where it ultimately counts. Besides, I have no hope in any government as I know who holds clutch over them…

    My issue here is the hypocrisy towards all that many of you are condemning Christians against and the ignorance towards the plight people of my faith are facing as our culture is being moved farther and farther away against us. Like I said, I don’t expect it to be WITH us and I do expect it to be against us, but seeing people have their chin up in the air so high and spewing out such things, it saddens me.

    You bring up a bunch of strawman topics instead of discussing what I posted about; the principles of free beliefs, speech, and the proper mindset to be tolerant of it all. I don’t see how these other things are connected to what I’m speaking about here…

    Should mention, I don’t consider America a Christian nation at all. It has been filled with Christians but it’s fabric is much more set from Ancient Rome and Rosicrucian ideals. The founding fathers were not Christian… the very opposite actually… and it continues this day with many people in charge…

    I should also mention that your horrible strawman with connected the laws of God to the Dark Ages is, well, a horrible strawman. Do tell me, what laws besides that of morality and spirituality does Christ set upon us? Are we not to render unto Ceasars what is Ceasars and God’s what is God’s? The Dark Ages was a Catholic system, and Catholicism is simply paganism with a mask of Christianity placed on it. I reject it’s doctrines fully and abhor the Dark Ages. It has absolutely no reflection from the Bible on it. Actually the Bible was banned from even being read or owned for much of that time. Mass was held in Latin, which essentially nobody even understood. Do not connect the two…

    Peace and blessings from our Father be upon you though. May He clarify the faith’s true purpose of this world and not let the wolves in sheep’s clothing pose the false meaning on you, as is so commonly perceived today. God bless.

  18. L says:

    @ MacJew
    You, as many others, would do well to not let the followers of ANY religion be the bearing mark on the religion itself. Let the religion itself SPEAK for the religion itself. Go to the scriptures, the source.

    The Bible does not reach out to us through fear and threats. Did Jesus go around focusing on spitting off about hellfire? Not at all. It was love and compassion that guided Him. It’s UNDERSTANDING God seeks from us. To worship out of fear is redundant. If you only fear a consequence then the whole purpose of coming to the faith is abolished. It’s an act of selfishness. It goes against the very testament of Christ, and such belief can be easily shattered if that’s how one’s mind works.

    As one who does not even believe in Hell, as there is no actual indicators in scripture for such a place rather it being a pagan concept brought into the faith by Catholicism, the only fear that should be gained is not coming to understand the truth itself and live in this truth. The wicked will suffer an eternal death. They reject the objective design of God and the nature He wills on us as to finally solidify His utopia so why would He place them there? It comes down to the respect of free will. With our free will we legitimize God turning us from our sinful natures after death, as will be done with believers as we accepted this mentality in this life. But the principle of free will obviously must have the option to reject as well, and many have and will also do so sadly, but that is the catch 22 of it all. It can be no other way. Get what I’m saying?

    As for heaven, there are many scriptural references in the OT that insinuate a life after death but no, heaven was never clearly stated as it was with Christ’s coming. But is this not the purpose of the Messiah as well, for it was only after His death did He ”set the captives free.” Yahweh left many things out of the picture for the Jews regarding certain truths on Satan, demons, heaven, etc. but this isn’t a ”new” concept at all within the faith.

    And as for the Talmud, I don’t even go there. That’s a book of pure evil in the face of both Judaism and Christianity.

    Peace and blessings from God, my friend. May He bring you to see Him through Himself and not the fallible and corrupt members clinging to His name. God bless.

  19. MacJew says:

    @L, the very fact you say the Talmud is a book of evil speaks volumes. It does nothing more than any current Rabbi, Pastor, or Priest continues to do to this day: interpret

  20. MacJew says:

    Stupid cell phone. Now I have to write a second message to continue:

    @L, I have read both your Bible and mine. I know that Jesus spoke with one face in Gospel and quite another in a separate Gospel. In Matthew, he says that he is coming to bring all to observe Torah (that is 613 commandments that many Xians argue against because they don’t want to give up their beloved bacon. In Luke, he tells people that they must hate their families in order to be his disciple. Sorry, but hating mom and dad is a direct violation of The Big 10.

    Also, your use of the spelled out YHWH shows you know nothing of my faith. We do not speak that name as it is presumptuous of us to presume to know which vowels are actually used. Just as it was presumptuous of certain Xians to pronounce it as Jehovah. Instead, we say Adonai when confronted with YHWH.

    Another thing is that you lambast Catholics for what you say. “As one who does not even believe in Hell, as there is no actual indicators in scripture for such a place rather it being a pagan concept brought into the faith by Catholicism, the only fear that should be gained is not coming to understand the truth itself and live in this truth. The wicked will suffer an eternal death. They reject the objective design of God and the nature He wills on us as to finally solidify His utopia so why would He place them there?” You should know it was Paul who first introduced the idea of Hell well before the Catholic’s. He took a real place, Gehenna (which was just outside of Jerusalem) and made comparative imagery saying the refuse where people burn their trash is the hell people will spend in for rejecting “The Annointed One” (which is was Christ and Messiah both mean).

    Another thing you should perhaps note is that KA, while extreme, certainly has his/her facts correct. You came here for a reason. What it is, I don’t know. I however come here to have my mind challenged.

  21. L says:

    @MacJew
    The interpretations and very basis of the Talmud’s existence is what I see as evil. It’s a direct counter against Christ, the work for the Jews who rejected our Messiah. It even expels curses on those who would dare attempt interpreting the Daniel-Messiah time line prophecy which, of course, points to Christ as it was fulfilled by Him and Rome (To the extent it should so far). It also justifies paedophilia and hosts many things that can easily be seen as contrary to the Torah itself.

    It, alongside Kaabalism and Zionism, break my heart for the Jewish people of today as this is what is pressed on them, not our Lord and Saviour. But as it is written, only a remnant of the seed of Abraham shall be saved. So it shall be…

    Where did Jesus specifically say He has come to make all observe the Torah? Christ came with a new covenant to the Jews and Gentiles alike, as described in Jeremiah. The Mosaic Law was never meant to be permanent at all. Notice how it is the only covenant that is never called everlasting, unlike the Noahic, Abrahamic, Davidic, and New. It was never designed to be the totality of God’s Law. I believe it was more to show us how we will always fall short of God without the Atonement and it all pointed to Christ.

    The hundreds of Mosaic Laws you listed seem to carry much more symbolism than anything. Like how two fabrics could not be crossed in clothing; this represents how the Jews were to be a unique and individual nation aside from all others, not crossing into them. Or how semen and corpses were treated. The ”unclean” natures from coming into contact with these things were symbolic of the Jews being filled with LIFE, not death as spilled semen and corpses were symbolic of. All of these things were put into place to really ingrain larger teachings within the Jews on a lifestyle basis but many of the laws man had made a vanity and abomination of, as Jesus rebuked the Pharisees. These were never the bread and butter of being good with God. God cares more about our minds and hearts and these things were meant to sway them in a good way, not to be done rigidly and ritually as if these acts and things in themselves carried some deep meaning. You miss the whole purpose if you think that.

    As for Jesus’ comments towards ”hating” your family, it’s improperly translated. In the Greek the word that was translated as hate is miseo, which means ”to reject, push away” or ”love less than.” What He is saying is that anyone who loves themselves or family above Him could not be His disciple. Has nothing to do with hating, it’s just prioritizing where your love and heart most is. While our family should always be loved, loving any man or woman above God is idolatry and will always have bad repercussions, as man is so very fallible.

    I am aware of your thoughts on Yahweh’s sacred name. That’s simply tradition and I’m not much for tradition. I don’t think the Father exactly cares too much whether we want to use His name by acronym or get it EXACTLY right. He knows who I am glorifying and talking about, you know who I’m glorifying and talking about, as do I. The substance of the message, alongside my mind and heart’s place, have no bearing on such trivial matters. God can see through that, I am sure. =)

    As for my thoughts on Hell and Paul’s imagery, Christ used this same imagery too but… that’s what it is. Imagery. It doesn’t point to some hell, it points to the Lake of Fire. That’s where the Second Death takes place. I believe people will be eternally destroyed there. Note how Christ always contrasts eternal life with death. Life to destruction. I never recall Him or the Father or even Paul ever saying that anyone will be tormented forever and ever, aside from Satan, the rebellious angels, and the Beast and False Prophet. Never is it explicitly stated and the very contrasts to life and death found in scripture show that on one side is life, the other death. Is not it a life in Hell? Would not those in there be alive in some fashion? Why then is it called death and destruction?

    The thoughts on the soul being eternal is simply another pagan concept seeped into the faith. God takes His breathe out of us and it is returned to Him. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible which speaks of the soul being eternal. Not to mention, this vision of hell doesn’t fit with God’s nature at all. We face trials and tribulation here for edifying but there can be no growth in hell. It is simply cruel torment. It doesn’t fit with God’s relationship towards man. Towards dissenting angels, that’s different as they have much more understanding to accept God as they live alongside Him. To reject Him in that manner is different than the possibilities we all face.

    And as for KA, I seen no ”facts” in his comment, just angry, petty, childish ranting, elitism, and much strawman and hypocrisy. He seems more pushed on by negative emotions and his own preconceived notions than anything. When he wants to pull out some facts and have a legitimate dialogue then I maybe could share in your view.

    God bless.

  22. L says:

    @ Stardust
    Sorry for missing your comment at first. Yes I am aware that a simple rejection of homosexuality can grow into strong persecution but this applies to absolutely any ideology. I can turn the tables and cite Lenin and Stalin’s atheist and Darwinian thinking leading them to see and treat humans as pure tools to be used and disposed of as they felt justified because they saw humans just as animals and they saw how in nature the strong conquer the weak.

    I don’t do that though because I’m aware that not every atheist will abide in that thinking. It’s absolute strawman to even tread those grounds. I’m seeing way too much of this as argument from you guys…

    Let us stop choosing the ”worst of the bunch” to support our own arguments. Let’s stick to the sources here. You want to blame Christianity itself for such heated bigotry but really, while it speaks against tonnes of things, one of the greatest laws for us to do is to love each other, no matter what. This is called agape. It is unconditional. I can disagree with you and your choice of lifestyle but this has absolutely no bearing on whether I love you or not. That is a principle that cannot be swayed by ANYTHING. It’s an object principle dependent only on itself. Separate from everything else. This is how God wants us all to see it for the scriptures speak MUCH on this.

    For you to disregard this and replace what the faith says by what certain ”followers” of the faith go and say is extremely illogical and fallacious. Condemn the individuals doing this as hypocrites and ignorant to what they say they are following. That’s as much an argument as you can legitimately muster out from that.

    We can both play this game. You can cite nasty ”Christians,” I can cite nasty atheists. You can call me having raging intolerance and bigotry based on a religion, I can call you having raging intolerance and bigotry based on postmodern thinking. We won’t go anywhere unless we qualify our sources of beliefs and I am always prepared to do so, but that really isn’t something fully necessary for you all to understand my point here, that while you all seem content to call another a bigot for rejecting something, you ignore your own bigotry for rejecting another same thing in like manner.

    Peace and blessings be upon you. God bless.

  23. MacJew says:

    @L, read Matthew 5:17. It says there that Jesus came to bring people to observe Torah. The idea that he came to bring a new covenant is in direct contradiction to Torah which states that the covenant with the Jewish people is everlasting and any who seek to change it is a( and are you ready for this?) False Prophet.

    I’m going to go out on a limb here and say you’ve never actually read the Talmud. Probably all you know of it is what you’ve found online. Since The Babylonia Talmud was completed AFTER the fall of the Roman Empire, it could only refer to the past when it mentions Rome. The same with Jesus. It does not justify pedophilia but it does sanction capital punishment against those who would do harm to your family.

    Another thing you do not understand is Zionism (that Jews want to have their own land) or Jewish Mysticism. It is not pressed on us as Xianity is pressed on us, Atheists, or any who do not accept Jesus as “our lord and savior” (an arrogant phrase as it implies he is for everyone when he clearly is not).

    The Greek word for hate may be mistranslated, but even if it means “to reject” or “love less than” as you say, it is a direct violation of the 5th Commandment. As is asking Jesus for anything when it means praying to anyone other that G-d.

    “That’s simply tradition and I’m not much for tradition.” Yet you have no problem accepting other “traditions” obviously. You seem to have no problem with the Xian “tradition” of preaching to the “unsaved”.

    “As for my thoughts on Hell and Paul’s imagery, Christ used this same imagery too but… that’s what it is. Imagery. It doesn’t point to some hell, it points to the Lake of Fire. That’s where the Second Death takes place. I believe people will be eternally destroyed there. Note how Christ always contrasts eternal life with death. Life to destruction.” This is still scare tactics. If you don’t believe, if you don’t accept, you won’t have eternal life.

    “The thoughts on the soul being eternal is simply another pagan concept seeped into the faith.” All religions are pagan in some way or another. The only difference between a cult and a religion are the numbers.

    “There is absolutely nothing in the Bible which speaks of the soul being eternal. Not to mention, this vision of hell doesn’t fit with God’s nature at all. We face trials and tribulation here for edifying but there can be no growth in hell. It is simply cruel torment. It doesn’t fit with God’s relationship towards man.” Read Matthew 10:28 and Romans 2:5-7 about this. If it doesn’t fit with G-d’s way, what about the world-wide flood, Sodom and Gomorrah? Did not G-d kill them? If he is so loving, why not give them all a chance? Why not bring his “savior” early to save their lives and souls?

  24. Bronze Dog says:

    It just really disgusts me that we’re still dealing with homophobes, rape apologists, and mob rule anarchists who disregard justice, fairness, and the rule of law so that they can corrupt government into a plaything of their religion. It doesn’t help that these same people want to erode all the moral improvement to marriage by appealing to “traditional” chattel-based models from savage times or by trying to assert that insectine reproductive strategy is the only purpose for which people can be allowed to live together.

    Those of us who want modern, civilized marriage, based on mutual informed consent between the involved adults are called ‘abominations’ and given dire warnings that somehow emphasizing mutual informed consent will lead to bestiality or widespread rape even though those things would require moving in the opposite direction, against informed consent.

    Add in the nuts who argue that allowing same sex marriage will somehow prevent heterosexual couples from marrying, and I start suspect they’re in a sham marriage and projecting that onto all committed heterosexual couples. Heterosexual couples are able to love each other enough to mutually agree on marriage. The same thing happens with same sex couples. If that’s not how you chose to get married, you’re doing it wrong.

  25. KA says:

    More than half of your reply was simply just pure slander, bigotry, and quite childish.

    Umm…no, no, and no.

    You say I project my own supposedly biased, elitist, and narrow minded characteristics on to you in some fallacious sentiment yet your very reply to me only proves my point on the issue, lol.

    Yeah, yeah, heard all this before.

    How you can deny my comments when you example them to a T with such heinous and bigoted remarks against me and my faith is mind boggling.

    So I take it you’re withdrawing the charge of ‘politically correct’? I find your faith mind boggling as well, since it is all fantasy.

    You condemn me of strawman tactics when you insinuate employees of Chic-Fil-A will be murdered because of their owner’s beliefs of marriage.

    Did you miss the and/or clause in that statement? I note you said nothing about the possibility of job loss.

    You justify people boycotting and condemning this man and his franchise over his beliefs by calling him a bigot… yet you can’t comprehend how the very opposition that was displayed towards this is in itself bigotry.

    Yet if he were to refuse to hire black people because they are supposed to be the children of Shem, or refused to hire Jews because of that bullshit at the end of Matthew? He has the right to his opinion as much as I have the right to call it not only bullshit, but bigotry.

    You cite comments of ”women staying barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen” and people going to hell in the same line as this man’s ”homophobic” comment, yet all I can hear from him is what he believes a legitimate marriage is

    It’s called a comparative analogy. As it is, I can almost see your shoulders moving back & forth. It’d probably also help if your reading comprehension was stronger.

    Yet another strawman statement.

    You obviously don’t know what a strawman statement is.

    If he said homosexuals should repent of their evil desires, or that homosexuals are all going to hell, then these two comments could be likened, respectively, to what you exampled.

    Dude, it’s inferred (or implied).

    He didn’t tell anyone what to do. He didn’t say who’s going to hell. He said what he believed towards a specific relationship, just like how you may believe that marriage is the union between any gender of people. What’s the difference here? Oh, yes, he gains his opinion from a belief structure you reject so you don’t like it and will segregate the fundamental principle between it all.

    No, I think you’re missing the whole point. It’s an entirely different matter what an individual says privately, or among their peers, it’s a completely different situation when you have the power & ability to spout off to the news media & cause a ruckus. Like most absolutists, you think it’s a false dichotomy.
    The fact is, this is NOT a matter of opinion anymore. Otherwise, the majority of the opinion would outweigh the minority. Insistence on a definition of marriage moves this completely into the realm of constitutionality.

    You say I hate another if I seen them and the same gender kiss and am revolted.

    No, I asked. Do apply punctuation.

    First off, I wouldn’t say I’m revolted, rather saddened.

    That’s actually worse than if you were revolted. Either way, you elevate yourself above someone else because they don’t conform to your specs.

    If you seen someone shooting up heroin, something you may think as revolting, do you automatically hate them?

    I don’t hate anybody really. You obfuscate between the belittling of an opinion and the belittling of a person, which would be ad hominem.

    I hope not. Just because you disagree with something by no means should translate to hate.

    It depends on whether you run w/Descartes, Hume, or Spinoza.

    You may hate the act but the person doing it can be absolutely separate. You tying the two together in such a way is illogical and not to mention yet another step towards a strawman…

    Still ain’t getting’ the strawman at all. Also, you’re wrong. Religion is simply a method by which people excuse the actions they’d do anyways. The fact is: opposition to gay marriage is firmly ensconced in the religious viewpoint, as there is no other logical argument against it. The ‘definition of marriage’ is and always has been a moving target historically, most definitely not as absolute as the religious would have us believe.

    You then proceed to state that all beliefs aren’t equal. I agree, but I’m not here defending my own.

    The hell you aren’t.

    I’m defending the PRINCIPLE of having free reign to believe what one wishes and speak accordingly.

    Everyone has that. No, what you’re defending is people’s right to NOT BE CRITICIZED. In the case of that bigot, he was lit up like an Xmas tree, and rightly so. No gag order was issued: his business wasn’t shut down. He was shouted down, & rightfully so.

    THAT is what is equal here. I dislike a lot of what people and our entire culture have to say but I would NEVER inhibit them from being able to say it and I don’t go cry Religiphobic or Christphobic and damn them as bigots and total idiots because what they believe is different than my own perspective.

    Even if it is? By that ‘logic’, the Nazis have every right to peddle their garbage.

    I also agree that beliefs should be tested.

    Obviously you don’t, or you wouldn’t be Christian.

    I validated my faith through such means.

    You won’t cry boo-hoo when I rattle that cage, will you?

    I stepped out of the postmodern mentality that so hopelessly enslaves one’s mind into the paradigm of only today and critically and deductively came to understand that what the Bible says is truth.

    Hey, I got bad news: your ‘bibble’ is completely & hopelessly a-historical, false, & packed to the gills w/lies. I approached the study of it objectively, & now it’s a revolting piece of shit not worth the paper it’s printed on.

    I’ve come to understand that our current society and it’s ”evolution” did not come from spectacular truths being found that debunk the Christian message, rather through a careful and rather spectacular overtaking and engineering of the world structure, namely through the Rosicrucians and Mystery schools. But this is an entirely different and larger topic… if you wish to get into that then okay, but that wasn’t my main point of message here…

    Hey, newsflash: I’ve heard all this before. In fact, our regular readers have heard all this before. Nothing you’ve said is new or original. You believe in magic? Fine. You believe in all this occultic codswallop? Cool. Just don’t try to squirm your way into an escape clause from all of the criticism you (or others) deserve. Religion is horseshit. I don’t recognize your ‘bibble’ as an authority on ANYTHING. So any criterion, worldview, or standpoint based on that has ZERO effect on me.

    All in all, everything you have to say here can be summed up as,”Those who oppose homosexuality are total bigots because I don’t agree with them. That’s a justification enough.”

    AFAIC – you oppose gay marriage? Don’t marry a gay person. Problem solved.

    You keep thinking you’re just fine and dandy while you viciously shit on everything and one which doesn’t agree with you.

    I love how you people adore personalizing a debate & dramatizing it into something it’s not.

    I don’t know how your parents raised you but that, to me, is not a sign of someone ”good.”

    Thus far your opinion of me is moot – since you talk to an imaginary friend & try to force your fairy tales on others.

    None of us are good.

    Speak for yourself, Mote Boy.

    ”Good” is relative and subjective to you.

    Actually no. It’s relative to the species, not me alone.

    It never has firm ground as no objectivity exists in your perspective, only the subjectivity you make an objective and you make this without even knowing it.

    Aye caramba, another C. S. Lewis fan. How do you know this? You don’t. You’re swinging on assumptions, which is typical.

    You will condemn the pious like me for burning people and being a total bigot with his hands over his eyes yet attack and reject anything contrary to your own beliefs which doesn’t sit right, and you probably do this through more emotion and bias than anything critical, judging by your hot manner here.

    That’s called ‘style’ you idiot. It’s how I roll. I should condescend to your fantasies because you ‘believe’ them? No, that’s accomodationist bullshit. I don’t owe your opinions 1 iota of respect unless you bring something to back them up outside of some temper tantrum.

    You’re a zealot to your own cause, just as bad as Westboro Baptist Church, yet you see yourselves miles apart because you rest your hate and ignorance on different things.

    Again, I don’t hate people. Ideologies are subject to thorough thrashing though. As for ignorant, that’s a complete miss.

    These things are inherent within individuals and can be attached to ANY ideology.

    Stupidity? Yes, that spans ideology.

    The mark of a wise mind is not exactly based on what he believes but HOW he believes it.

    I prefer the Kansas lyric “if he says he’s a wise man, then he surely does not know.”

    How he validates and discerns things.

    & I’m ignorant because I call things the way I see them? Or because I don’t walk around on eggshells when people spit out stupidity?

    There are hateful Christians, there are hateful atheists.

    Obviously. I’ve banned other atheists in my time from blogs.

    Bigoted on each end. Ignorant on each end. Do not think you are better than someone because of WHAT you believe. None are more enslaved in mind once they tread these grounds…

    Superiority? The only thing superior about me, is that I actually do research, before I open my big yap. You might want to do that as well.

    Please consider my words here. I say them not to condemn you but to have you take a step back and consider them.

    Really? You condemn me, yet you get uglier & more personal than I ever did. You scan for code words, & make a number of baseless (& wrong) assumptions based solely on my lack of belief. You attack me on a personal level after excoriating me for doing the same, Mote Boy. The double-standards employed by the religious mind are mind-boggling.

    Peace and blessings from our Father be upon you.

    There’s nobody up there. So that phrase is essentially meaningless.

    May He guide you a mind that may truly thirsts and calm your heart, for I see much anger and pride within it.

    I’d suggest you get a new prescription for your glasses – you’re almost certainly metaphorically blind.

    Understand how these inhibit you and your learning and entire mentality. God bless my friend.

    Wow. Talk about delusions. Of superiority to boot.
    I hope you wake up & realize how false all religions are. Once you do, you’d likely be a little irritated too.

  26. KA says:

    Yes I am aware that a simple rejection of homosexuality can grow into strong persecution but this applies to absolutely any ideology. I can turn the tables and cite Lenin and Stalin’s atheist and Darwinian thinking leading them to see and treat humans as pure tools to be used and disposed of as they felt justified because they saw humans just as animals and they saw how in nature the strong conquer the weak.

    Holy shit, what ignorant droppings!
    Lenin & Stalin were NOT DARWINIAN, they were Lysenkoist, which is utterly pseudo-science. He rejected Mendelian geneticism, and was most assuredly NOT Darwinian.
    As for the Strong vs. Weak nonsense, that was SOCIAL Darwinism, it certainly WAS NOT the same, & was espoused by Herbert Spencer, who was a complete idiot.
    All the crap you’ve rattled off has been debunked for decades: you, L, are the most severely uninformed person to blog here to date.

  27. L says:

    @ MacJew
    Matthew 5:17 has Jesus saying that He has come to FULFILL the law. This is exactly in line with what Paul preaches of the law, that it is a foreshadow of Christ and the New covenant. This follows directly in line with what I mean when I say how many of the laws of the Mosaic Covenant were held with deeper spiritual, intellectual, and morale emphasis and meaning. This is not to say there’s some esoteric interpretation but that it demonstrated a larger concept in ways which layman could demonstrate and truly ingrain in their lifestyle. With Christ and the Holy Spirit, these come to full fruition. The teachings of Christ blatantly demonstrate that which should be seen within the law. They work together so long as you understand the law like this, rather than some rigid and ritualized series of arbitrary commandments we must do lest we sin.

    And there is absolutely nothing said about the covenant to Moses being a completely everlasting covenant. If you are talking about God’s covenant with Abraham and his seed then that has no bearing on the New Covenant at all. They stand alongside each other with no quarrel. But the Mosaic Covenant, that has come and passed for it was simply a stepping stone towards the New and it was never called everlasting, unlike all the other covenants. They all live together without issue. It would only be if the Mosaic Covenant WAS called everlasting that there’d be an issue. But it’s not, go figure…

    I’ve read parts of the Talmud online. I’ve read enough to reject it. It is utterly opposed to the Messiah and I feel the Torah qualifies Christ itself. The Torah speaks for itself. Why should I look to groups of people who obviously had contempt with certain elements within the Torah itself to interpret it for me? It’s an illogical route that will only give you an extremely biased and lacking understanding of it all.

    Pertaining to Zionism, as a Christian it is pressed on me sternly. As someone in the West even it is pressed on me sternly. To question the Holocaust and the legitimacy of today’s Israel is yet another thing that suddenly turns you into some hateful anti-Semite. C’mon now, this is obvious… and as for Kaabalah, it’s esoteric and gnostic teachings are essentially being pushed on us through many mediums, namely the New Age movement being one of the biggest. These concepts come from the Mystery schools and the idea that we have some for of divinity within us is ever growing. In fact I see it as the very exact nature of the future Antichrist system being moulded right now as this is the set of beliefs that constitute the most primal forms of Satanism and are held by those pushing us into this New World Order… these matters have been so ingrained in our culture, both spiritually and secularly, that many don’t even realize it. It’s being pushed more than you may know.

    To love your family less than God is in no way a direct violation of the 5th commandment. You still honour and love them but you don’t let that usurp your honour and love for God. Doing so would be idolatry, plain and simple. No one of mankind, no matter your relationship to them, should be prioritized over God when it comes to following.

    When I say ”tradition” I mean man-made concepts and ideals not directly found within the scripture. Preaching to the unsaved is a commandment found in scripture by Christ. It is also found in the OT.

    ”When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.” – Ezekiel 3:18-19

    So I don’t get how you seem to defend Judaism yet separate you and I on the subject of preaching to the unsaved… God has always seeked for us to do this. It only makes sense. Of course the methods by which one does this can vary. I’m not one to pounce on people. Have I called any of you into repentance? Have I pressed Christ down your throats? I’m tired of this strawman…

    And no, the consequences of sin being stated are not scare tactics. This is simply common sense. Do you honestly think God would not warn us over this point? You’d be fret against Him if He didn’t lol so really if you want to think like that then you’ll never win. Scare tactics reside on the focal point of a message and persuasion being of threats and fear. Christ taught no such thing. He taught in love and compassion but didn’t hold back the consequences of sin, and this only makes sense. Only someone against the faith in the first place will see fear over the love displayed by our Lord.

    No, not all religions are pagan at all. This is Theosophical teaching and I reject that strongly, unless you’re saying by definition we can call all religions pagan, then you still error as that’s just not the case…

    The Great Deluge was caused by the total corruption of flesh and the world by the fallen Watchers and the Nephilim. The purge was necessary and was a vital lesson to be learned for the angels. Cases as Sodom and Gomorrah also had their chances. God doesn’t need to come down and draw a picture for us on certain things for humanity to see that they are wrong. Other cultures weren’t as Sodom and Gomorrah. They had all their chances to figure out how they behaved was bad but chose not to. Regardless, that wasn’t a time of grace. That was a time of rebuilding. God owes us nothing. What makes you think we’re automatically entitled to a saviour in the first place? God wanted the Messiah’s appearance to be rooted in a background of understanding and prophecy. For Him to just plop down the Christ at that time would teach us nothing. God’s wisdom is patient and thinks in the long term, whereas many of us seem keen to critique God in our arm chairs without ever realizing how certain consequences may effect an entire goal and how they may be understood in the long run.

    God bless.

  28. ChuckA says:

    Hey L?….
    What the fuck are you coming in here…on an ATHEIST Site, of ALL Internet places…spouting all the usual boneheaded crap that every one of us atheists have heard innumerable times over our various lengthwise lifetimes?
    What…are you some double digit IQ (probably below 80?) totally indoctrinated from birth teenager?
    Most of us old-timers here were brought up with all that absolutely man-made, demonstrably sadomasochistic bunch of sadistic, dogmatic, and dictatorial bullshit.
    Pardon me if I express my personal suggestion:
    “Stuff your fucking Bible up your ass!” OR…
    perhaps…
    do some actual independent THINKING for a change.
    Here’s one Site (Of many, of course!) to start with…
    [Although (just guessing, of course), it might be a wee bit advanced for your apparent mental, cognitive abilities...] :

    http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/index.html

    All that said, “L”…be sure to READ AO’s “On Commenting” info near the top left of this page; something you obviously missed when you immediately “dove” right into posting your extremely preachy, even totally (and typically) childish bullshit.

    My apologies to KA…and Stardust…in particular…for taking some charge in my reply to all “L’s”, above, rather stupid preaching. The Abrahamic, so-called “God”…of ALL the thousands of man-made gods is, IMO, without a doubt…especially of the more recent god variety…the absolute worst, most vicious…even totally contemptible…example of a god; indeed, one of the most UN-deserving of any manner of worship.
    I’ll go even further…not one knee should have EVER been even slightly bent over that disgraceful example of human contrived stupidity. It’s incredibly amazing how many lives have…over so many Centuries…been so sadly misspent, and almost totally wasted in the completely false pursuit of somehow, impossibly, “pleasing and/or placating” that arguably monstrous notion of a (thank “Quetzalcoatl”…? :shock: ) totally contradictory, NON-existent…
    (“fucking…or is it…non-fucking”…or maybe…Motherfucking?…or Father-fucking?…ummmm…how ’bout, let’s make it:
    EVERYONE-fucking…deity!

    What’s that?…did somebody just say: “ChuckA?…Thou hath blasphemed!!!”…?
    And I thayeth…righteth backeth:
    “EXTHELLENT”!!! :twisted:

  29. KA says:

    The Great Deluge was caused by the total corruption of flesh and the world by the fallen Watchers and the Nephilim.

    Aye caramba!
    This never happened. Like all the rest of the lies in the Talmud and/or bibble.
    ChuckA:

    What the fuck are you coming in here…on an ATHEIST Site, of ALL Internet places…spouting all the usual boneheaded crap that every one of us atheists have heard innumerable times over our various lengthwise lifetimes?

    Well, to be honest, I let L in – apparently AGAIN we discover that this is usually a bad thing to do, as Mote Boy is disingenuously trying to ‘open our minds’ (read: come back into the fold! My imaginary pal loves YOU TOO!). & based on what L has demonstrated, s/he doesn’t know anything about anything, which is standard for the average delusionist.
    & I say this in almost total objectivity, the hugest percentile of ignorant opinions usually pop out of the mouth of religious folks.
    ‘L.’ has proven this theorem, as have the hundreds before him. Unwilling to listen, unwilling to learn, assuming wrongly that atheists ‘just don’t understand’, & if they did, they’d agree w/HIM, it’s a study in bunny trails AGAIN.
    There’s no reasoning w/the irrational. I don’t know why I bother sometimes…

  30. MacJew says:

    @KA, I know weren’t referring to me, but something I truly love about this site is that it MAKES me think. If I have come away from any of the posts you or any of the moderators wrote thinking, that’s great! I know, theologically, you and I do not agree so I take a cue from my own personal feelings: don’t shove what I believe (not know) down your throat.

    When it comes right down to it, many of the things I find myself agreeing with. Should I ever read a post on this that talks about the problems with Judaism, I won’t feel threatend. Nor will I likely comment, either. Why? Because I know a load about religion, mine and others, but I have no illusion that many Atheists know more about my religion than I do.

    @ChuckA, blaspheme all you want. I certainly will applaud you word usage (unless you take my dad’s name in vain, then you and I might have a throwdown).

    @L, like a typical Christian, I have noticed you weasel your way out of evidences that prove you don’t know your ass from the hole under your nose. Fecal matter is spewed from both, so I recommend seeing a plumber for the problem.

  31. KA says:

    L has been banished.

Comments are closed.